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High Fructose Corn Propaganda

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shebazz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shebazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2008 at 10:55pm
Kinda like the jugs of OJ made from concentrate... wouldn't it be easier just to leave it as it was? Why concentrate and then de-concentrate things?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Banquo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2008 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by shebazz shebazz wrote:

Kinda like the jugs of OJ made from concentrate... wouldn't it be easier just to leave it as it was? Why concentrate and then de-concentrate things?


Money. When they remove the water it dramatically reduces the weight and volume of what they have to ship, which means big savings for the companies (but a crappy inferior product for the consumers).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DTXBrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 1:09am
Okay, to address why I haven't replied to criticisms, it's only been a couple of days, I don't linger here, I'm not a "troll", nor do I work in the sweetener industry.

I'm a sales manager at a finance company, to those who expressed interest, snide or otherwise.

FaithSF, of course people should be careful when eating processed sugars.  They're highly caloric, and downright dangerous to people who are diabetic.  My intent was not to say that they were healthy for people to eat, but no less healthy for a person to eat in moderation than granulated white sugar.  That scenario changes slightly for those with diabetes, but it's still not the toxic plague that some have made it out to be.  I apologize for the condescention.

Yutolia-- your comment was the one that set me off, yes, and at whom that particular backlash was directed, but I've seen the argument made dozens of times before, and really, I'm just unloading against the argument.  I don't mean for it to be a personal attack, thus my decision to not post your name and a quotation of what you said.  To address your replies, my brother died from a heroin overdose.  Heroin is "natural."  I'm very much aware of the dangers of things which are "natural."  As I said to FaithSF above, my intent wasn't so much to say that HFCS was healthy, merely to point out that it's no more dangerous in moderation than granulated table sugar, and in fact is processed no more severely to achieve a final product than said table sugar.  (Actually, lime is added to the raw sugarcane to help produce clearer sugar, and lime is FAR more toxic than any constituent product added to corn syrup to raise its fructose level.)  It doesn't posess any traits of toxicity, contrary to what many people would have us believe.  If it is dangerous, it is only because we as Americans tend to eat too much of everything, all together.

Kartek-- processed sugar is an addition to processed food.  Doesn't matter if it's table sugar or HFCS, your point is invalid.  Be very well aware - FOOD is healthy in moderation, unhealthy in excess.  Perhaps that is the stumbling block we trip over.  We don't eat too much BAD food, merely too much food in general.

Hezadancer-- what corn lobby?  I don't have any dealings with any agricultural business of any sort.  I have not received funds, stock, free goods and/or services, or anything from ANY sector of the agricultural industry, so stop making assertions of that sort.  Why don't we, as a society, use more sugar?  You already answered it, despite your unwillingness to concede the point.  It's a matter of cost.  Manufacturers are wanting to make as much money as possible, which means producing the least expensive good possible.  If you want real sugar in things, lobby the manufacturers.  That's up to you.

Jimbo-- as I've repeatedly asserted, I don't work for any industry which is related in any way to the agricultural industry.  Nor, as I'm sure you'd suggest if I don't address it now, do I work for any industry which makes a profit off of people being overweight and/or diabetic, so stop assuming that I have a hidden agenda.  I didn't seek out this forum entry, rather I was looking up an entirely different commercial when I ran across this.  If you want to verify the information that I gave you, print it off and hand it to a dietician.

Thorr-- not a spy, just tired of people thinking that HFCS is some conspiratorial plan to poison America.

PaWolf-- I'll probably come visit this every few days or so.  I'm not likely to make a lot of posts about random commercials, as I don't really watch TV very often, but maybe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shebazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 1:15am
Originally posted by Banquo Banquo wrote:

Originally posted by shebazz shebazz wrote:

Kinda like the jugs of OJ made from concentrate... wouldn't it be easier just to leave it as it was? Why concentrate and then de-concentrate things?


Money. When they remove the water it dramatically reduces the weight and volume of what they have to ship, which means big savings for the companies (but a crappy inferior product for the consumers).


Yeah, hence the good stuff is more expensive. Even as a poor college student, though, I'm willing to pay an extra buck or two for real OJ. It tastes much less like Tang and more like...oranges.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hootman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 1:21am
Uh, DTXBrian, can you take some time from your schedule and help the current financial situation?  HFCS is the least of our problems  right now.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DTXBrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 1:26am
Hootman... as an employee for a subsidiary of AIG, believe me... I'm anxious myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hootman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 1:37am
Oh boy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kartek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 2:17am

Much of the problem lies in the fact that there are segments of our society that seldom by design eat any thing that isn't processed food stuff!   I find it hard to believe the combinations of all those Chemicals is A huge contribiting factor to obesity and a host of other maladies!   WE won't even touch off on the additives used to induce hunger!

Americans need to learn to cook for themselves,  get fresh foods and meats and it is possible for them to do so almost anywhere they live. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shebazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 2:17am
Maybe we could spend $700 billion on OJ transportation. No more concentrate!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 2:38am
Originally posted by shebazz shebazz wrote:

Maybe we could spend $700 billion on OJ transportation. No more concentrate!
 
Not with my tax dollars you don't!  (I've got my own orange tree. )
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 2:39am
Originally posted by DTXBrian DTXBrian wrote:

Jimbo-- as I've repeatedly asserted, I don't work for any industry which is related in any way to the agricultural industry.  Nor, as I'm sure you'd suggest if I don't address it now, do I work for any industry which makes a profit off of people being overweight and/or diabetic, so stop assuming that I have a hidden agenda.  I didn't seek out this forum entry, rather I was looking up an entirely different commercial when I ran across this.  If you want to verify the information that I gave you, print it off and hand it to a dietician.
 
I was just fuckin with ya.
 
I actually found your explanation to be extremely coherent & well written plus I agree with you 100% on what you said about moderation.
 
I used to drink a 2 litre bottle of Coke a day. Then I completely cut it out for a long period of time.
 
Now I'll buy a bottle on the weekend every once in a while.
 
I think most of the replies you got were just us screwin around with a newbie.
 
Although, we have in the past gotten industry representaves here who've shilled for their product & left in a huff when we ganged up them. LOL
 
We're actually a pretty mild & genteel bunch here.
 
Except for when it comes to politics.
 
Maybe you & I will fight someday. Big%20smile
 
 
 
Great news guys.... With the Air Hawk, flat balls are no longer a problem!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Banquo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 2:46am
Originally posted by kartek kartek wrote:

Americans need to learn to cook for themselves,  get fresh foods and meats and it is possible for them to do so almost anywhere they live. 


I like to cook myself, and just today had fresh corn, sweet potatoes and green beans out of the garden.

Though I'll admit I often partake in frozen microwave offerings too. I mean who can turn down a pepperoni hot pocket or a good burrito now and then. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 4:11am
Hot Pockets are disgusting.
 
I buy them whenever they're on sale. LOL
 
 
Great news guys.... With the Air Hawk, flat balls are no longer a problem!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hezadancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 6:56am
Originally posted by Banquo Banquo wrote:


Though I'll admit I often partake in frozen microwave offerings too. I mean who can turn down a pepperoni hot pocket or a good burrito now and then. LOL


Michelina's Wheels N' Cheese is my beloved microwave lunch when I work. I was pissed when that particular dish jumped to around $1.48 from the normal $1.00 Michelina's usually are. I still bought it though, it's just that good

I'll have to look and see if it has any HFCS in it LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 7:09am
Originally posted by Banquo Banquo wrote:



I like to cook myself,...
 
Shocked
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hootman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by Banquo Banquo wrote:



I like to cook myself,...
 
Shocked
 
 


I'll bet it's rare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Banquo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 7:49pm
Oh you know what I meant! LOL



Moss: It wasn't a cookery class at all...

Jen: What was it?

Moss: He wrote it down wrong because his English isn't very good. And it turns out, he didn't want to teach me how to cook, he wanted to cook me...

Jen: What?

Moss: He wanted to eat me...i know...egg and my face, were in alignment...

Jen: He wanted to eat you?

Roy: Oh, is he one of those German cannibals...

Moss: He is, and he was such a nice man...

Roy: Was he?

Moss: Yes, he was a fine young cannibal...

Jen: Hang on, hang on, he wanted to eat you?

Moss: Yup, keep up Jen...so, we had a laugh about it but in the end, I didn't really feel like being eaten so we just watched Ocean's Eleven.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shebazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2008 at 11:38pm
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by shebazz shebazz wrote:

Maybe we could spend $700 billion on OJ transportation. No more concentrate!
 
Not with my tax dollars you don't!  (I've got my own orange tree. )
 
 


Nono, see, we'll buy up oranges that no one else wants. The kind the company had no business growing in the first place. Then, we'll sell them and somehow make a profit. It won't cost taxpayers a dime, and they'll probably make money! If we don't do this, the entire orange market may just collapse on itself and we'll all be sent into the dark pits of hell.

Ok, MAYBE I was speaking metaphorically for another boneheaded idea...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2008 at 12:26am
Originally posted by shebazz shebazz wrote:

Nono, see, we'll buy up oranges that no one else wants. The kind the company had no business growing in the first place. Then, we'll sell them and somehow make a profit. It won't cost taxpayers a dime, and they'll probably make money!
 
Ok, MAYBE I was speaking metaphorically for another boneheaded idea...
 
You should talk to Milo Minderbinder.
 
If anyone can figure out how to do that deal & make a profit, it's him.
 
 
Great news guys.... With the Air Hawk, flat balls are no longer a problem!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DTXBrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2008 at 12:59am
So this is way above my pay-grade, but as I work vaguely in the industry... I'll see if I can clarify some of the events over the past week or two.

First, AIG... AIG has assets totaling well over $1 trillion.  The vast majority of these assets are secure and very likely to retain most of their value over the long-haul.  The issue is liquidity.  AIG, one of the largest providers of corporate insurance in the world, has been "hit up" for claims an unprecedented amount this last decade.  AIG lost huge sums of money after the 9/11 attacks, after the 2005 hurricaine season, after the Indonesian Tsunami, and after the Chinese earthquake.  All devastating, all utterly unpredictable, and all freakishly unlikely.  All things considered, the only insurance investment among these which AIG made which was perhaps less than prudent was the massive amounts of insured corporate goods in New Orleans.

So... liquidity.  The liquid funds which AIG reserved were running critically low.  This isn't typically an issue, as AIG still has assets with amazing value, but with other market forces in action, and the entire financial industry in a state of panic, more and more claims were being filed, and investors were pulling their money out of AIG at the same time.  All together, a bad deal.  The desperate need for immediate liquidity meant that AIG didn't have enough time to solicit reasonable bids for assets, and would be selling assets for pennies on the dollar to generate cash-flow.  So... after soliciting a capital investment from other private corporations, which were turned down, the Federal Reserve Banks stepped in to provide the capital.

The purpose of the funds are to provide immediate assistance in providing funds for claims and investors so that AIG could be deliberate about the process of selling off assets to generate cash-flow.  The interest on the $85B line of credit is just over 11%, over two years.  The amount of money lost to interest is far less than the amount of money that AIG would lose by short-selling assets.  Ultimately, even if AIG has to close its doors, the Federal Reserve would safely be able to get a return of principle plus interest.  Moreover, if you noticed my language above, it's an $85 billion "line of credit", which means that AIG can borrow as much as it needs (up to $85B) and only pays interest on what it borrows.  It could be, if the panic subsides in the coming days, that AIG would only tap into $5 billion of the fund, or less.

Hope that's clarified the situation around AIG somewhat.  As far as the other bailout goes, I'll see if I can explain some of it, at a later date.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SokMunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2008 at 5:04am
Part of the problem is that if you want to find food without preservatives or HFCS, you have to spend the $$$$.  When you're living on a low income, it's very hard to buy food that's healthy because all the stuff that is healthy is out of your range.  Sure, I would love to buy organic foods, but I just can't afford it.  Even regular fruits and vegetables are high.  $5 for a 3 lb bag of apples.  $2.79 per lb for peaches.  I just try to do the best I can with what I am able to buy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shebazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2008 at 5:46am
So do we break AIGs legs if they don't pay us back? Also, damn, 11% is pretty steep on >1 billion. What kind of returns do they see on an average investment? In order to dig themselves out, they're gonna have to make quite a return. Which, given the market for such things at the present, doesn't seem likely. Here's hoping I'm absolutely wrong.

Of course, the $700 billion is a completely different story, and was what I was referring to with aforementioned metaphor. That plan is way more vague and troubling.

Anyhow, I digress. Orange juice not from concentrate = good. HFCS = bad. On a side note, my Snack Pack tapioca does not have HFCS, which was exciting. Also, the chicken I just ate didn't have any ingredients listed, but I'm pretty sure it lacked HFCS. So that's at least two things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FaithSF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2008 at 7:32am
DTX Brian:

Here's a belated thank-you for your very thoughtful response.  I've barely been able to check in during the last week, but I was very impressed by your articulation and thoughtfulness, not to mention your intelligence.

I hope your job is safe, and welcome to CIH!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2008 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by DTXBrian DTXBrian wrote:

So this is way above my pay-grade, but as I work vaguely in the industry... I'll see if I can clarify some of the events over the past week or two.

 
A little off-topic here, Brian.  And, of course, we nevvvvvver do that!  WinkLOL
 
A number of people believe that we might be overreacting to the financial situation.  But Wall Street ups and downs are often based on emotion.  Maybe not to this extent, but...
 
Anyway, you mentioned you might add more at a later date.  Just want to let you know that we have threads for this sort of thing.  They're in the "Member-Moderated" section under Jimbo/Thor.  In fact, I may copy/paste your previous comment there.  I think the specific thread is called "Watching our economy circle the drain".
 
Your insight will be welcome.
 
 
 
  
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DTXBrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2008 at 12:11am
Originally posted by shebazz shebazz wrote:

So do we break AIGs legs if they don't pay us back? Also, damn, 11% is pretty steep on >1 billion. What kind of returns do they see on an average investment? In order to dig themselves out, they're gonna have to make quite a return. Which, given the market for such things at the present, doesn't seem likely. Here's hoping I'm absolutely wrong.


I think you're misunderstanding.  The $85 billion isn't an investment in AIG.  It's a source of temporary liquidity to take the heat off of AIG so that AIG can sell assets to create their own liquidity without having a "fire sale" of assets.  So that you can understand better what I mean, JP Morgan Chase just bought Washington Mutual (not a division of... the ENTIRE company) for $1.9 billion.  In fiscal year 2007, Washington Mutual held assets worth more than $325 billion.  The federal government doesn't want AIG to be forced to panic sell assets for more than a 99% loss simply to create liquidity.  In an orderly sell-of, bidding should bring the percent return-to-value in a sell to a much higher percentage, ideally 80% or higher.  As I said earlier, AIG and its' subsidiaries have assets worth more than $1 trillion dollars.  If AIG sells 10% of its portfolio at 80% RTV, you've got more than $80 billion dollars right there, and AIG is STILL a massive company.
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