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Damned Health Care Enrollment Period

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    Posted: 15 Nov 2014 at 8:07pm
I see these ads, sign up now, you only have till December 15th.
I don't have to worry about it, but why such a narrow time period to enroll?
Health insurance is probably the biggest bill we pay every month. I never even see the money because it comes out of my wife's check.
I thought we had good insurance, but every time she goes to the doctor, I get a bill.
 
I can't complain but sometimes I still do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrTim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 4:05am
I'm not even bothering with it.  The whole clusterf**k is going to eventually collapse from it's own sheer ineptitude.  Besides, I couldn't afford it anyway...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 4:09am
Actually, the latest Gallup poll released yesterday says most people who've signed up like it.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/11/obamacare-health-exchanges-coverage-112892.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ad nauseous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 4:16am
After watching that, I'm lost.

Too damn f#$%ing complicated!
One good thing about TV-you could always turn it off
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 4:27am

Originally posted by Jimbo Jimbo wrote:

Actually, the latest Gallup poll released yesterday says most people who've signed up like it.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/11/obamacare-health-exchanges-coverage-112892.html


That's not saying much.  The numbers were about the same for the 12 years prior to Obamacare.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 4:35am
Got a link for that stat?

If the Repubs hadn't done everything in their bag of tricks to obstruct it & try to make it a failure, it would probably be a lot more successful right now.

America's health care system has been f**ked up for years. The only two presidential administrations in modern history that have even lifted a finger to try to improve it, have been Democrats, while the Republicans tried to block both of them at every turn.

When Republicans have been in the WH, health care was not even an issue.

That's because as long as big corps are making a killing on the backs of the working class, that's the way they want it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple rose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 4:56am
I can't figure out why Republicans are opposed to the individual mandate.  Aren't they always talking about personal responsibility?  People who don't have insurance are either going to be turned away and left to die in a medical emergency or the rest of us are going to pick up the tab.
I think there's a lot wrong with Obamacare, but since the Republicans never came up with anything at all, there isn't much room for them to kvetch.  Instead of ranting about repealing Obamacare, why don't they come up with some tweaks to improve it?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 4:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 5:22am
Originally posted by purple rose purple rose wrote:

I can't figure out why Republicans are opposed to the individual mandate.  Aren't they always talking about personal responsibility?  People who don't have insurance are either going to be turned away and left to die in a medical emergency or the rest of us are going to pick up the tab.
I think there's a lot wrong with Obamacare, but since the Republicans never came up with anything at all, there isn't much room for them to kvetch.  Instead of ranting about repealing Obamacare, why don't they come up with some tweaks to improve it?  

Most people didn't want the individual mandate.

And as it turns out, the architects of Obamacare knew that the public was against it and knew they had to lie about what it was (a big tax) because "Americans are too stupid" to understand this sort of thing.  Those aren't my words.  Those are the words of the main architect of Obamacare.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple rose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 6:17am
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by purple rose purple rose wrote:

I can't figure out why Republicans are opposed to the individual mandate.  Aren't they always talking about personal responsibility?  People who don't have insurance are either going to be turned away and left to die in a medical emergency or the rest of us are going to pick up the tab.
I think there's a lot wrong with Obamacare, but since the Republicans never came up with anything at all, there isn't much room for them to kvetch.  Instead of ranting about repealing Obamacare, why don't they come up with some tweaks to improve it?  

Most people didn't want the individual mandate.

And as it turns out, the architects of Obamacare knew that the public was against it and knew they had to lie about what it was (a big tax) because "Americans are too stupid" to understand this sort of thing.  Those aren't my words.  Those are the words of the main architect of Obamacare.



I know most people are against it and I can't figure out why.  Unless they want uninsured people being turned away from hospitals and dying on the streets, somebody has to pay for it.  Why would anyone want people not to take responsibility for themselves?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 6:26am

It's not that people don't want them to take responsibility for themselves; it's that they don't expect that the program will be able to sustain itself.  Young people, who are crucial to the success of the program (as they're the ones subsidizing the rest), are not signing up as expected.  And many of the ones who are, are ones with medical problems like diabetes.  The ACA can't sustain itself unless all young, healthy people buy into it.  And young, healthy people don't care much about health insurance.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple rose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 7:06am
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:


It's not that people don't want them to take responsibility for themselves; it's that they don't expect that the program will be able to sustain itself.  Young people, who are crucial to the success of the program (as they're the ones subsidizing the rest), are not signing up as expected.  And many of the ones who are, are ones with medical problems like diabetes.  The ACA can't sustain itself unless all young, healthy people buy into it.  And young, healthy people don't care much about health insurance.


So the problem isn't with the mandate itself; it's more about enforcing it.  Why don't we work on that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 9:06am

The enforcement is the $1,000 fine the uninsured pays at tax time, though I've heard that that's going to be difficult to implement.  Still, it'd be cheaper than 12 months worth of insurance premiums.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Trend: Overall, how would you rate the quality of healthcare you receive/your healthcare coverage?


So, the upshot here is that even in the face of the massive obstructionist efforts on the part of the Repubs, the program is still not the failure they tried to turn it into for political reasons.

Now try to imagine what we might have right now had they cooperated.

But that would never do, would it? A Democrat President going down in history & getting the credit for vastly improving health care in the US?

Heaven forbid.

Assholes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by purple rose purple rose wrote:

Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by purple rose purple rose wrote:

<span style="line-height: 1.4;">I can't figure out why Republicans are opposed to the individual mandate.  Aren't they always talking about personal responsibility?  People who don't have insurance are either going to be turned away and left to die in a medical emergency or the rest of us are going to pick up the tab.</span>
I think there's a lot wrong with Obamacare, but since the Republicans never came up with anything at all, there isn't much room for them to kvetch.  Instead of ranting about repealing Obamacare, why don't they come up with some tweaks to improve it?  

Most people didn't want the individual mandate.

And as it turns out, the architects of Obamacare knew that the public was against it and knew they had to lie about what it was (a big tax) because "Americans are too stupid" to understand this sort of thing.  Those aren't my words.  Those are the words of the main architect of Obamacare.



I know most people are against it and I can't figure out why.  Unless they want uninsured people being turned away from hospitals and dying on the streets, somebody has to pay for it.  Why would anyone want people not to take responsibility for themselves?




The entire thing was based on a conservative Republican model created by The Heritage Foundation & upon which Newt Gingrich & the GOP ran on as their alternative to "Hilarycare" as they dubbed it, back in the 90's.

And as we all know, it was the model Mitt Romney used in Massachusetts when he was Governor.

They loved & touted it as a panacea until Obama adopted it, then it suddenly became their worst nightmare.

Not because it was a fundamentally terrible plan, but because a Democrat President was poised to get the credit for it.

These people are just evil minded scumbags.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaWolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 3:01pm
I suggest folks without benefits take the time to grasp a basic understanding and sign up. This is even more important now that (if anyone bothered to notice) pharmaceutical prices skyrocketed over the past few weeks - for some medications (even a few very common medicines), as much as 3600% - so you WANT to get your pharma (is that 'Part D'?) declarations and coverage correct.
But we are covered under my policies, which cost a $1000 per month being the wonderfully kind & soft-hearted father I am, I cover our brats until they are 30 or get great high-paying jobs with wonderful benefits, or go all-out-wacko-baloney-Rambo due to PTSD from years of saving the world by killing off Islamic extremists (and the U.S. from NOTHING), in which case, the U.S. Government can suck up and support my boy for the rest of his life and set him up with better benefits, which they are now doing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by Jimbo Jimbo wrote:



They loved & touted it as a panacea until Obama adopted it, then it suddenly became their worst nightmare.

Not because it was a fundamentally terrible plan, but because a Democrat President was poised to get the credit for it.

These people are just evil minded scumbags.


Kinda like how the Dems (including JFK, LBJ, and Al Gore Sr., among many Dems) decided that civil rights for blacks could wait another 7 years till they were in office and could claim credit for it, and so they voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1957?  LOL

At least in the case of healthcare, no one was clamoring for Obama to have any "legacy".  Of course, we now know what the Obama administration thinks of the "stupid" American public, thanks to his main ACA architect.  But seeing as how it was the Republicans raking Obamacare over the coals, the guy must've been referring specifically to the Dems.  LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Kinda like how the Dems (including JFK, LBJ, and Al Gore Sr., among many Dems) decided that civil rights for blacks could wait another 7 years till they were in office and could claim credit for it, and so they voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1957?  LOL

At least in the case of healthcare, no one was clamoring for Obama to have any "legacy".  Of course, we now know what the Obama administration thinks of the "stupid" American public, thanks to his main ACA architect.  But seeing as how it was the Republicans raking Obamacare over the coals, the guy must've been referring specifically to the Dems.  LOL


No surprise that our resident ancient history professor & chief deflector, side-stepper & subject changer would bring up & over simplify a congressional vote from 57 years ago on a subject that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

But since you dredged it up, the bill was passed, a majority of Democrats voted for it with the Republicans, nearly twice as many Senate Democrats voted for than against, and finally, as has been pointed out to you well over 1,000 times, back then, a good portion of the Democratic Party was in the hands of Southern CONSERVATIVES (I.e. today's Republicans) in an era when racial bigotry was still alive & well.

But again, none of that nonsense has one iota to do with health care or Obama.

As for the "stupid Americans" comment, you're being "less than truthful"... again.

Jonathan Gruber, the MIT professor who made the remark, was not, as you claimed, the "main architect" of Obamacare. He was hired as a consultant, but the law itself was written & crafted by dozens of people.

Quote Was Gruber the "architect" of Obamacare?

Not exactly. This is a law that was passed by both houses of Congress and written in different forms by several Congressional committees. It's many thousands of pages long and has a myriad of different provisions. But Gruber clearly played an important role in crafting the idea behind the series of exchanges, subsidies and taxes that form the law's centerpiece. He continues to argue the country is better for Obamacare

So why is he being called that? And what did he actually do?

Gruber's work did shape the Affordable Care Act in three key ways:

1. Gruber played a crucial role in crafting the health care law passed in Massachusetts during then-Gov. Mitt Romney's tenure. Gruber modeled the impact and effectiveness of that state's plans to implement an individual mandate -- the controversial policy that essentially forces people to get covered, or get fined.

2. Gruber was hired in 2009 as a consultant by the Obama administration -- and paid nearly $400,000 -- for a year of his work. What'd he do? Gruber has called it "technical support" and "analysis." What he really did was take a bunch of numbers and model the effects of proposals that would later become the Affordable Care Act.

3. At least eight states called him in to counsel them on how to implement the health care law and set up state-run health insurance exchanges.

So why is he calling us voters stupid?

Let's first look at what Gruber actually said: He was defending the fact that the law was written behind closed doors and he said Democrats intentionally made the law confusing to mask the fact that the law instituted a new tax to pay for health reform. Why'd the Democrats do this? Voters don't like new taxes. Gruber said it was more important to get health reform than to be up front.

"It's a very clever, you know, basic exploitation of the lack of economic understanding of the American voter," Gruber said at the Honors Colloquium 2012 at the University of Rhode Island.

And: "They proposed it and that passed, because the American people are too stupid to understand the difference," he said at Washington University at St. Louis in 2013.

The brunt of Gruber's argument is that policymakers crafting the law had to take politics into account. And politics means that politicians prefer to vote for a tax on insurance companies that will ultimately get passed on to consumers, rather than voting for a tax on consumers outright, for example.

Gruber's "stupid" comments are summed up his contention that people don't want to pay more taxes, even when they want cheaper or better things. For instance:

- Want better public education?

- Sure!

- Want to pay higher taxes to improve public education?

- Eh...


http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/14/politics/obamacare-voters-stupid-explainer/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 7:49pm

The Washington Post, back in 2011, described him as a "key player" in the ACA.




Originally posted by Jimbo Jimbo wrote:



Quote

So why is he calling us voters stupid?

Let's first look at what Gruber actually said: He was defending the fact that the law was written behind closed doors and he said Democrats intentionally made the law confusing to mask the fact that the law instituted a new tax to pay for health reform. Why'd the Democrats do this? Voters don't like new taxes. Gruber said it was more important to get health reform than to be up front.

"It's a very clever, you know, basic exploitation of the lack of economic understanding of the American voter," Gruber said at the Honors Colloquium 2012 at the University of Rhode Island.

And: "They proposed it and that passed, because the American people are too stupid to understand the difference," he said at Washington University at St. Louis in 2013.




And that helps your case how, exactly?  LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 8:20pm
So how does "key player" translate into "main architect"?

The quote I posted helps my case in that it explains that a) those remarks were one person's opinion, not the admin's & b) it clarifies that by "stupid", he was talking about the public's tendency to want more & better services, but without tax increases to pay for them.

And in that regard, he was obviously talking about Republicans, not Democrats, contrary again, to what you claim.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 9:26pm

Oh, Lord.

Okay, "key architect", "the key architect", whatever.  From 2011:

This week, hosts Mark Masselli and Margaret Flinter speak with Dr. Jonathan Gruber, Health Economist and Professor of Economics at MIT. Gruber is the key architect of the Massachusetts health reform as well as the Affordable Care Act and discusses the successes as well as legal challenges facing the health care law moving forward.



And the fact that he admits to purposely deceiving the American public in order to push this major piece of legislation through...Christ almighty!  Typical progressive attitude.  "We know what's best for you stupid, horrible peasants.  No need for you to know.  Now run along back to your little lives.  You disgust me."

Actually, he did us a favor.  He proved exactly what many of us have always known progressives to be.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 9:50pm
And from the quote I posted...

Gruber said it was more important to get health reform than to be up front.

^^TRUTH^^

If the STUPID right wing nut jobs of this country weren't so STUPID, not only would the truth of that statement be obvious, it wouldn't be necessary to couch such things in the first place.

Say the word "tax" to a RWNJ & you get a free instant fireworks show.

They hate the word so much, they would rather pay through the nose for exorbitant insurance premiums than pay much more affordable premiums & pass the expense on to the high dollar "Cadillac" plans that the wealthy can easily afford, just because John Roberts said that it was the equivalent of a "tax".

If they weren't so STUPID those on the right wouldn't need to have the truth wrapped up in a nicer, more easy to swallow package for them.

Health care is the most important issue for every human being. If you get sick or injured, which can happen to anyone, you need health care.

You cannot live without your health.

Do you understand that?




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by Jimbo Jimbo wrote:

And from the quote I posted...

Gruber said it was more important to get health reform than to be up front.

^^TRUTH^^


Just as I said...

Typical progressive attitude.  "We know what's best for you stupid, horrible peasants.  No need for you to know.  Now run along back to your little lives.  You disgust me."


And it sounds like Obama's going to do the same with immigration reform.  If he doesn't get the support needed for his plan, he'll just push it through the way he wants.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2014 at 10:34pm
Funny to hear the party of liars howling in protest over issues involving the truth.

Since when has the right given a rat's about or had an iota of respect for the truth?

Scum on the right like Sarah Palin & her "death panels" bullsh*t etc, etc, have told countless lies about Obamacare, now they're howling about what amounts to typical Washington politics.

Hell, Bush lied about WMDs in Iraq & sacrificed the lives of 5,000 American soldiers, yet you all never uttered one peep in protest because you couldn't care less about them.

He wasted over $1 trillion over there too, enough to pay for universal free health care for the entire nation for 10 years or more, & again, not a chirp outta you all.

But let Obama propose a conservative designed health care plan that costs a miniscule fraction of what YOUR GUY wasted & you all are spitting bile & slobbering lies all over the place.

This was not unlike what has been done thousands of times before with thousands of pieces of legislation. You are being disingenuous in crying foul as if it were something more.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2014 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by Jmcclane Jmcclane wrote:

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